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Alt.gothic FAQ v3.01


         FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS LIST FOR ALT.GOTHIC NEWSGROUP
     _________________________________________________________________

   This FAQ was created by Peter Wake (peterw@cs.man.ac.uk), and is
   currently maintained by Tom Fosdick. Please send all comments,
   corrections, suggestions for new questions and hate-mail to him at
   tom@midnight.karoo.co.uk
   It is posted on the 14th of every month to the newsgroup alt.gothic.

   This document is available from the following places.

   Primary FTP site
   ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music/gothic/alt-gothic-faq mirrored at
   goth-ftp.acc.brad.ac.uk:/ftp.maths.tcd.ie/gothic/alt-gothic-faq

   Primary WWW site
   http://www.darkwave.org.uk/faq/ag/

   If your are new to newsgroups the news.newsusers FAQ is also
   recommended, available from (ftp) rtfm.mit.edu and its mirror
   sites.

     _________________________________________________________________

   Contents

     _________________________________________________________________

Introduction.

Section: 1 The newsgroup itself.

   Subject: 1.1 What exactly is this newsgroup about?
   Subject: 1.2 What is the general etiquette of the group?
   Subject: 1.3 Are there any subjects I should avoid?
   Subject: 1.4 What type of material is appropriate for this group?
   Subject: 1.5 What are all these abbreviations?
   Subject: 1.6 What is this GothCode?
   Subject: 1.7 What is a net.goth?
   Subject: 1.8 What is this Goth Test?
   Subject: 1.9 What is a troll?
   Subject: 1.10 What is AGSF (alt.gothic Special Forces)
   Subject: 1.11 What's the deal with this <insert name> character?
   Subject: 1.12 How do I identify a net.goth?
   Subject: 1.13 Are there any other gothic newsgroups?
   Subject: 1.14 What is a rant?
   Subject: 1.15 People on alt.gothic are being horrible to me, why?
   Subject: 1.16 What's with all these "Is XXXXX gothic" questions?
   Subject: 1.17 What is the [AG] tag?

Section: 2 Resources

   Subject: 2.1 What Gothic music lists exist?
   Subject: 2.2 Where are the gothic FTP sites?
   Subject: 2.3 Where can I find lyrics, pictures, etc for a goth band?
   Subject: 2.4 What are some various Vampire related net resources?
   Subject: 2.5 Are there any good goth clubs in <fill in city>?

Section: 3 The Gothic Subculture

   Subject: 3.1 What is a Goth?
   Subject: 3.2 What the history of the goth movement?
   Subject: 3.3 Is goth about religion?
   Subject: 3.4 What does gothic music sound like?
   Subject: 3.5 So what does the word 'goth' mean.

Section: 4 Various Trivia

   Subject: 4.1 Is the Nefilim a spelling mistake?
   Subject: 4.2 Where does the phrase Sisters of Mercy arise from?
   Subject: 4.3 Are the Sisterhood the same as the Sisters of Mercy?
   Subject: 4.4 What is the best black dye?
   Subject: 4.5 What should I use to paint my jacket?
   Subject: 4.6 What has Anne Rice written?
   Subject: 4.7 Who is Storm Constantine?
   Subject: 4.8 Any other interesting goth authors?
   Subject: 4.9 Any interesting goth movies?
   Subject: 4.10 Who is Andrew Eldritch, Carl McCoy, Wayne Hussey, ...?
   Subject: 4.11 What do Pre-Raphaelites have to do with goth?
   Subject: 4.12 What is 'Snakebite'?
   Subject: 4.13 Whats the best way to dye my hair?
   Subject: 4.14 What are the mailing addresses of some gothic bands?
   Subject: 4.15 What comics are Goth?

Credits.

     _________________________________________________________________

Introduction
     _________________________________________________________________

   This FAQ covers both the basics of the newsgroup and the bascics of
   the gothic subculture, it is not, however intended to be extensive
   in either.
   For this reason it is recommended that it be read in conjunction
   with other material. For those new to this group, but not usenet,
   the following are suggested.
   o  Welcome to alt.gothic
   o  The alt.gothic Troll FAQ, available from
          http://users.aol.com/tonygirl33/trollfaq.html

   For those new to newsgroups, please read the news.newusers FAQ
   available from rtfm.nit.edu and its mirror sites
   (sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/usenet in the UK).

     _________________________________________________________________

Section: 1 The Newsgroup Itself
     _________________________________________________________________

  Subject: 1.1 What is This Newsgroup About?

   Alt.gothic is a newsgroup devoted to discussion of various aspects
   of the so-called "gothic" subculture and its people. The vast
   majority of the discussion that goes on isn't "gothic" per se, but
   deals with death and weirdness--or anything of interest to us.
   Most of us don't know each other personally, but many of us
   exchange email on a regular basis and have become friends IRL
   (in real life).

   alt.gothic was created in 1991, since then it has become a very
   informal newsgroup and apart from the odd asbestos scorching episode,
   pretty friendly too.

  Subject: 1.2 What is the general etiquette of the group?

   There are several things to consider.
   1) Please post in plain vanilla text. Not HTML and not in MIME format.
   2) Please make sure that the lines of your post are under 80 chars long.
      The reason for this is that not everybody uses newsreaders that
      automaticly text wrap lines and the standard screen width is 80
      characters. If you do not format your posts in this way it makes
      them difficult to read in some newsreaders and they are likely to
      be ignored.
   3) Quouted text in replies should be indented by at least one character,
      preferably with a symbol ('>','$',':' etc) at the start of the line.
   4) When posting a reply, please do not quote the whole of the previous
      message as this takes up more resources (bandwidth). Quote only
      what is required to make your point. A good rule of thumb is that
      if there is more quoted text in the article than new, too much
      has been quoted.
   5) Please keep your signature to 4 lines or under. Some people do
      have longer sigs, but in these cases they are walking the thin
      line of what can and can't be justified artisticly. Anything
      over 8 lines would have to be a masterpiece worth several
      million dollars.
   6) When posting a reply, please begin your comments _under_ the
      quoted text, this makes it much easier to read.

  Subject: 1.3 Are there any subjects I should avoid?

   Glad you asked. A flame directed at anyone will probably get you
   a flame in return. A undeserved flame directed at a regular or
   well-respected newbie will get you several flames in return.

   It has become somewhat popular to post "delurking" or
   introduction-style messages. These are fine, but please make sure
   they have some substance (not just "Hi, I'm goth." <--this is a
   fatal mistake!), such as commentary on the newsgroup, its denizens,
   topics of discussion, etc.

   ****This is not a personals newsgroup!*** Personal descriptions
   are best saved for email (i.e., for people to whom this is relevant).
   If you *must* introduce yourself, please indicate that this is what
   you are doing in the subject line! (But instead, save yourself the
   trouble).

   Stupid questions that could be solved with a little research, such
   as reading the this document are likely to get an angry response.

   Any message of the 'MAKE MONEY FAST' type is not acceptable
   and will almost certainly result in a complaint to your system
   administrator. As will any messages advertising pornographic
   material. Neither have any place here whatsoever.

   Religion is always a hotly debated issue, if you are not suicidal
   then posting anything about religion is not advisable.

   Discreet advertising of relevant material is acceptable, but it
   must be discreet. Any off topic advertising or repeated message
   is likely to result in action being taken against you.

   Finally, this is alt.gothic, not alt.vampires. If you want to talk
   about vampires, "go out the door and turn left."

  Subject: 1.4 What type of material is appropriate for this group?

   Pretty much anything that is relevent to the gothic subculture is
   admissable. It's a good idea to keep your original posts on-topic
   (if you can figure out what "on-topic" is =). Threads nearly always
   end up splitting into a bunch of off-topic discussion, which is
   perfectly valid. There is no set of rules which defines exactly what
   is on- or off-topic, especially since "gothic" is an extremely broad
   term. Bear in mind that the common bond between all of us who
   read/post to alt.gothic is that we have some interest in the gothic
   scene. Because of that, we often share many other interests, ranging
   from the esoteric (e.g. philosophy, religion, obscure Fields of the
   Nephilim trivia) to the mundane (e.g. hair colour preferences, gothic
   cat names). If you feel others who read this group will be interested,
   post it. A very few people post poetry or short written works on
   alt.gothic. If you are doing this, please let the rest of us know with
   an indication in the subject line (e.g. Dead Roses [poem]).

   The newsgroup alt.vampires (and alt.vampyres) exist for the
   discussion of vampire related issues. alt.gothic is not the place
   for such discussions.

   Binary posts are not admissible. A binary post is a picture, sound,
   video clip etc. There are four reasons for this as follows.
   1) Binary material is not good reading, which is what this group is
      for.
   2) Many people have to pay to download alt.gothic, binary posts are
      normally much longer than text ones and so cost more to download.
   3) System administrators treat binary groups differently as they
      take up a lot more space. Posting binaries to discussion groups
      wastes space on news servers.
   4) It is considered 'bad nettiquette' and lots of people get annoyed
      with you if you do it.

  Subject: 1.5 What are all these abbreviations?

   Most of them are band names, there are very many gothic bands with
   quite long names, these are normally abbreviated. Some common ones
   are as follows.

    SoM - The Sisters of Mercy
    FotN - Fields of the Nephilim
    SDC - Southern Death Cult
    ASF - Alien Sex Fiend
    SS - Switchblabe Symphony

   If you're wondering what ROTFL or IIRC means, then you should be
   reading the news.newusers FAQ.

  Subject: 1.6 What is this GothCode

   The goth code is simply a method by which one can very concisely
   describe oneself. For more information see -Synic-'s homepage at
   http://www.omen.com.au/~synic/code/index.html

  Subject: 1.7 What is a net.goth?

   Like many things this started out as part of a joke, a score of over
   80 on the Goth Test (see 1.6) qualified one as a net.goth.
   Since then it has been used as a general handle for a goth who
   frequently posts to gothic newsgroups.

  Subject: 1.8 What is this "Goth Test"?

   The Goth Test is a list of questions like any test, the difference
   between the Goth Test and most others is that the Goth Test is
   a joke.
   Its available via anonymous FTP at ftp.maths.tcd.ie in
   /pub/music/gothic/ as 'the_goth_test'. It can also be found in Take a
   Bite 1.0 - jokingly subtitled 'the net.goth handbook', which is also
   available at the same site.

  Subject: 1.9 What is a troll?

   A troll is a person who posts messages with the express intention
   of annoying the people on the newsgroup. For more information
   see the alt.gothic Troll FAQ, available at
   http://users.aol.com/tonygirl33/trollfaq.html
   If you suspect a post is of this type then please do not reply to it,
   trolls thrive on the attention of others, without replies they get
   bored and go away.

  Subject: 1.10 What is AGSF (alt.gothic Special Forces)

   You. Whenever the newsgroup is being invaded by trolls or other
   lowlifes, we band together to bring these idiots to justice.
   Usually this involves mass emailing of said idiots' postmaster or
   system administrator, forwarding the offensive posts back and
   demanding that they do something about their user(s). We are
   periodically the object of the alt.syntax.tactical invasion
   (*please* read the alt.syntax.tactical FAQ (aka The Troll FAQ)
   to learn who they are and how to deal with them).

  Subject: 1.11 What's the deal with this <insert name> character?

   Like any newsgroup, some people have been here longer than others,
   also like any subculture, some people have been involved longer
   than others. For this and other reasons certain people in the group
   have a great deal of respect. That is not to say that they are
   infallible, but it's a good idea to think very hard before
   disagreeing with them.

  Subject: 1.12 How do I identify a net goth?

   The words net.goth in lower case should be written on them somewhere.
   The jacket arm just below the shoulder is recommended by Sexbat (but
   he may be teasing you - be warned :-)
   Further to this there have been many versions of 'net.goth' t-shirts
   and net.goth ID cards have been produced at various events.

  Subject: 1.13 Are there any other gothic newsgroups?

   Indeed there are.
   o alt.gothic.announce if for announcements only. It is a moderated group.
   o alt.gothic.fashion is a group for the discussion of fashion.
   o alt.gothic.music is a group for music discussion.
   o alt.binaries.gothic is for binary posts.
   o aus.culture.gothic is a discussion group for Australian goths.
   o uk.people.gothic is a discussion group for British goths.

   Please note that aus.culture.gothic and uk.people.gothic are specific
   to the relevant countries, 'officially' posts from outside those
   countries are not welcome.

  Subject: 1.14 What is a rant?

   A rant is a venting of frustration, usually off-topic, but
   occasionally concerning one of our topics of discussion. As the
   name suggests, it is comprised of some sort of complaint(s). There
   is nothing wrong with an occasional rant, as long as you indicate
   your rant in the subject line [rant], just to warn the rest of us,
   so we can get our high temperature suites on. :)

  Subject: 1.15 People on alt.gothic are being horrible to me, why?

   You've posted something incredibly stupid, insulting, or clueless.
   OR
   You're a troll, crossposter, or spammer.
   OR
   You are seriously violating netiquette.
   OR
   You've just flamed a respected alt.gothic denizen For No Good Reason.

  Subject: 1.16 What's with all these "Is XXXXX gothic" questions?

   There are three reasons why people post these messages.
   1) They are very sad and actually think that it matters.
   2) They think it would be interesting to debate the issue from
      a purely academic perspective.
   3) It's a joke to take the piss out of the people who post such
      questions for reason 1. Such posts are normally easily
      distinguished by the sheer stupidity of the question, ie
      "Are Bauhaus Gothic?" or "Are the Bee-Gees Gothic?".

   In general these posts get tiring after 30 femto-seconds or less,
   so they're best avoided.

  Subject: 1.17 What is the [AG] tag?

   This tag is placed at the beginning (and sometimes the end) of the
   subject line of a post intended for and posted only to alt.gothic.
   We started using this tagging system after some lunkhead subscribed
   alt.gothic to a bunch of mailing lists, resulting in massive amounts
   of messages (literally hundreds) with no relevance to alt.gothic
   whatsoever. It became difficult and frustrating to weed through all
   these posts in hopes of finding an alt.gothic post--with the [AG]
   tag they are easily identified. Sometimes we still use the tag
   whenever the newsgroup is getting full of spam and crossposts.

     _________________________________________________________________

Section: 2 Internet Resources
     _________________________________________________________________

  Subject: 2.1 What Gothic music lists exist?

   The Sisters of Mercy Electronic mailing list run by Pete French
   (-bat). Send mail to dominion-request@ohm.york.ac.uk to ask to be
   added to the list. Send postings to dominion@ohm.york.ac.uk.

   There is also a Fields of the Nephilim Electronic mailing list. Mail
   to neph-request@wave.cerf.net to ask be added to the mailing list. The
   address to post to the list is neph@wave.cerf.net

   All About Eve also have a mailing list although at the time of writing
   its details are not known (would someone mail them to
   tom@midnight.karoo.co.uk please).

  Subject: 2.2 Where are the gothic FTP sites?

   ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music/gothic
   A mirror site at goth-ftp.acc.brad.ac.uk (143.53.1.4) has
   been set up to contain all the info at ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music, as
   well as a number of other goth resources, including various gothic
   lyrics, discographies, faqs, images, and Corey's Goth List, etc can be
   found. Get the README and INDEX files from the pub/music directory for
   the full contents of the music area, which included guitar tabs, and
   other music resources. When you FTP use 'anonymous' as the username
   and your email address as the password. If you don't have FTP access
   mail to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com.

   There is also another gothic archive site in the United States by
   Peter Stone (bat@cyberden.com) at cyberden.com. It contains much of
   the original gothic archive site as of 12/93, as well as other new
   material.

  Subject: 2.3 Where can I find lyrics, pictures, etc for a goth band?

   There is a huge music archive available via anonymous FTP at
   ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/music. If a band isn't at the goth archive, it might
   very well be at the main music archive.

   There are also a number of goth World Wide Web servers out there, and
   the following should get you started, and most have links to other
   sites.

   The Dark Side by VampLestat (lestat@vamp.org) is at
          http://www.vamp.org/Gothic/

   Rob's Gothic Section is at
          http://web.cs.nott.ac.uk/~rji/index.html

   The Sisters of Mercy Home Page by Ian Grimstead is at
          http://www.cm.cf.ac.uk:/Sisters.Of.Mercy/

   Doktor Joy's Website (including HELIX) is at
          http://www.darkwave.org.uk/~dok

   The Dark Side of the Net is at
          http://www.gothic.net/darkside

  Subject: 2.4 What are some various Vampire related net resources?

   Go ask in alt.vampyres and check out the alt.vampyres FAQ file posted
   there.

  Subject: 2.5 Are there any good goth clubs in <fill in city>?

   Digitar (digitar@io.org) maintain a list of Goth clubs worldwide.
   Email him for a copy, or FTP 'GothClubs' from the
   goth archive at ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music/gothic. There is also a
   hypertext version at
   http://www.vamp.org/Gothic/clublist.html. Please
   email in any additions you might have to digitar's list.

   It is an onerous task to maintain such a list, and through no fault
   of his own Digitar's list can be inaccurate. It is better to look for
   a local list, which often be done by visiting WWW seach engines such
   as www.yahoo.com.

   For those in the UK, refer to HELIX, maintained by Doktor Joy at
   http://www.darkwave.org.uk/~dok/

   For those in Australia, the aus.culture.gothic FAQ contains relevant
   information.

   If you know of another country (or state) specific list, would you
   please mail details of how to get hold of it to the maintainer,
   currently tom@midnight.karoo.co.uk

     _________________________________________________________________

Section: 3 The Gothic Subculture
     _________________________________________________________________

  Subject: 3.1 What is a Goth?

   The term 'Goth' was used by Ian Astbury who described Andi Sex Gang as
   a 'gothic pixie' and popularised by the UK music magazines New Musical
   Express and Sounds (NME) and was used to describe a class of music.
   For some people that music became the basis for a 'way of life'. They
   brought their own backgrounds and interests along and a sub-culture
   was formed and it took for itself the name Gothic.

  Subject: 3.2 What the history of the goth movement?

   NME and Sounds reputedly took the term Gothic from Siouxsie Sioux (of
   the Banshees) who used it to describe the new direction for her band.
   However the earliest significant usage of the term (as applied to
   music) was by Anthony H. Wilson who was overcome by a rare moment of
   lucidity on a 1978 BBC TV program when he described Joy Division as
   Gothic compared with the pop mainstream. Perhaps Joy Division (who he
   was managing) are not what we now think of as Goth but it is possible
   that they are at the source of the term. Bauhaus were labelled as
   Gothic as early as 1979 when they released Bela Lugosi's Dead.

   The pop journalists were quick to latch onto the term and they applied
   it in a nasty sort of pigeonholing way to a number of bands that were
   around in the early 80s - most of which did not sound much like the
   Banshees (or anyone else for that matter), the journalists were more
   concerned with looks. The (Southern Death) Cult was foremost amongst
   these bands, like the Banshees they wore lots of black and silver and
   had extreme black hair. The Sisters of Mercy were also so labelled and
   when they split and Wayne Hussey founded the Mission they carried
   their label with them, despite being different musically. Finally The
   Fields of the Nephilim appeared and they (perhaps) consciously and
   deliberately got themselves labelled as Gothic despite looking and
   sounding quite different to what had previously been labelled Goth.

   The fans of bands like the Sisters, Bauhaus and Siouxsie liked to
   dress up in lots of black. The music they liked was something of a
   backlash against the colourful disco music of the seventies. The
   Banshees were a punk band before they mellowed and punk was brathing
   its last as Gothdom gathered speed, and so one could claim Gothdom
   grew out of punk. The music of Joy Division, the Sisters and Bauhaus
   was angst ridden but all the hatred was turned inwards and the music
   was typified by introspective lyrics. Many of the new Goth followers
   were introspective too. Some were a bit confused by the label and
   started to think that the label Goth was in some way connected with
   the Victorian Gothic revival and Gothic horror and because enough of
   them thought that eventually it became true.

   NME and Sounds were not oblivious to this and produced many hilarious
   articles poking fun at the Goths amongst their readers. They said that
   being Goth was about sitting around in circles on the floor of pubs
   (bars) smoking a lot and talking about being a bat. Some readers of
   this list get angry at this. Luckily most Goths have a good enough
   sense of humour to laugh at themselves once in a while. The first
   generation Goths complain that second and third generation Goths often
   seem to think that Gothdom is about wearing the blackest black, with a
   lot of silver jewellery and looking as thin and pale as possible. In
   common with their older bretheren they avoid the crass comercialism of
   mainstream rock and gather together to share their woes :-) They read
   Bram Stoker and Anne Rice and talk about being vampires. They read
   H.P. Lovecraft and talk about the end of the world.

   The sounds that were described as Gothic were appearing in other
   countries besides the UK in the late seventies, but I have yet to see
   any evidence that they were using the word. (If you have any...)
   Currently Germany is the bastion of Goth, where they are called
   Grufties. If German people are doing a write up on the Goth scene
   there, please send me a copy. So that's how we got where we are today.
   Today Goth is about music, literature, art and about clothes.

  Subject: 3.3 Is goth about religion?

   Gothdom embraces all religions, all denominations and all races. Many
   Goths are atheists and a sizable minority are new age spiritualists,
   Wiccans and members of other alternative religious groups. There are
   Christian Goths. Basically Goth is not about religion, but with the
   imagery of religion. May goths wear crosses or ankhs, and there are
   many religious references in goth songs, but it is not a religious
   movement.

   Goth uses religous imagery in some songs. Christian Death are big on
   this. Bauhaus did a couple of tracks with religious imagery. The
   Sisters have a quasi-religious name but this is ironic, their music
   shows that religion is not Andrew Eldritch's main concern - he prefers
   politics. The Mission (UK) were fairly 'new age'. Carl McCoy favoured
   shamanistic traditions and gnostic revelation. Religious jewellery is
   often worn, particularly crucifixes and ankhs. These are strong
   symbols with powerful subconscious effects. Sometimes they are worn as
   an satirical statement, sometimes not. For some it is just fashion.

  Subject: 3.4 What does gothic music sound like?

   Thanks to John Mc Donagh aka Nascent Virion for a list of what bands
   he thought typified the Gothic sound. Some may disagree, but this is a
   rather decent representaion of GENERAL catagories.

   Original Goth:
     * Bauhaus
     * Christian Death
     * Southern Death Cult*
     * Joy Division (Sometimes had a Goth sound, didn't look very Goth)
     * Sisters of Mercy
     * Siouxsie and the Banshees

   Miscellaneous Goth:
     * The Fields of The Nephilim**(Too new to be original, too old to be
       new)
     * The Mission (UK) (Early stuff was considered Goth by the music
       press)
     * Sex Gang Children

   Mellow Goth:
     * Dead Can Dance
     * Xmal Deutschland
     * Danielle Dax (more poppy)

   Metal/Industrial Goth:
     * Creaming Jesus (Metalish)
     * James Rays Gangwar (Goth w/samples)
       (A lot of Goths listen to Ministry but they aren't really Goth)

   Experimental/Folky/Occult Goth:
     * Current 93
     * Death In June
     * Sol Invictus

   New Goth:
     * Nosferatu, Rosetta Stone (Sisters/Mission sounding bands)
     * Shadow Project (Off shoot of Christian Death)
     * Clan of Xymox (Synth, almost dancey)

   * Southern Death Cult (SDC) later split in all directions. Only SDC
   are condsidered properly Gothic. However many of Southern Death Cult's
   Goth followers remained true even when they entered their 'The Cult'
   glam metal phase.

   ** Fields of the Nephilim were so unlike previous Goth it is amazing
   that they were ever considered Goth at all. Nonetheless they are one
   of the definitive Goth bands and most Goths took to them instantly
   because of their originality and talent.

  Subject: 3.5 So what does the word 'goth' mean.

   The word 'Goth' does indeed refer to a tribe of the indo-european
   kind. The Goths slowly integrated into the melting pot of Europe and
   basically disappeared.

   The word 'gothic' is first found in common usage in 1611, referring
   mainly to an 'uncivilized lack of taste or education'. The people who
   built in the 'gothic' style would have never used this term. These
   people were monks or artisans who worked for the church to build a
   land of Cathedrals from the 11th century on. They also built castles
   and other edifices. The 16th century saw a large amount of turmoil
   with the reform and all. This opened up the architecture field quite a
   bit. This new wave of artists looked back on what they saw as a bland
   repetitive style of architecture as 'gothic'. Unfortunatly, because of
   the shallowness of the learned men at that time, it stuck. It was also
   referred to as Ogive - or the characteristic arch of this style - this
   word is usually used by most politically correct historians.

   The fact is: Ogive architecture today is extremely inspiring and
   beautiful. The nameless men who designed and built these works of
   grandor were very talented and inspired. One merely has to look at the
   Cathedral of Chartres, Paris, Amiens, Canterbury or any of the other
   edifices of this age to realize irony of using 'gothic'. In fact, to
   augment the irony, the popular opinion today is that much of the
   baroque architecture of the 17th and 18th centuries is gaudy and
   flamboyant.

     _________________________________________________________________

Section: 4 Various Trivia
     _________________________________________________________________

  Subject: 4.1 Is the Nefilim a spelling mistake?

   This is the name for Carl McCoy's new band. The rest of the
   original Fields are now called Rubicon and have a new singer.
   They are no longer considered Goth.

  Subject: 4.2 Where does the phrase Sisters of Mercy arise from?

   Andrew Eldritch chose the phrase as the name of this band from a
   Leonard Cohen song of that name. The song may be referring to
   prostitutes as 'Sisters of Mercy' (although Mr Cohen disagrees).
   There is also a religious order who are sometimes known by that name.

  Subject: 4.3 Are the Sisterhood the same as the Sisters of Mercy?

   The Sisterhood was a one shot band created by Andrew Eldritch to stop
   Wayne Hussey using the name when Hussey left the Sisters of Mercy. By
   the way, 25000 pounds was not granted in a court case - it is merely
   the advance budget that the Mission didn't get.

  Subject: 4.4 What is the best black dye?

   Synthetic dyes are best. The 'Ritt' dye rarely works well and tends to
   be coloured, though it isnt available in the UK. There is a japanese
   semi-natural dye (Ginsa?) which is not bad if you can get it. As for
   tips on how to actually dye clothes with this:

   Don't use a Washing machine. Get a big pot (no, not that one, I said a
   BIG POT. Put the object in that you wish to dye, and fill it with
   enough water to cover the object and then some. Remove the object.
   This is done to make sure that when you put the article of clothing
   back in, you don't dye the stove.

   Put the pot on the stove and boil the water. The hotter the better.
   Unfortunately it is difficult to get the water much above 212f (100c).
   Add the Dye. Approxametly twice what the package says and stir (no,
   not with your arm, and don't use the spoon that you stir spaghetti
   with either) add the garment. Boil for a while, turn off the heat and
   let cool. When the BIG POT is cool enough, put in a corner overnight.
   The next day rinse the garment out with cold water as well as the pot.
   put the garment back in the pot and fill with vinegar. Let set a day
   or two, and wash in cold water with about half the amount of laundry
   soap you normally use.

  Subject: 4.5 What should I use to paint my jacket?

   Acrylics are best. Clean the jacket with warm soapy water. Use a
   'flexible medium' if possible. If using Liquitex brand you may get
   away without. You can varnish with with clear acryclic coating to
   protect further.

   T-Shirts can be done above but the flexible medium is essential. This
   way is better than buying fabric paints.

  Subject: 4.6 What has Anne Rice written?

   Anne Rice is alive and well and writes supernatural romance.
   Interview With a Vampire is her mort artistic work (and the
   mook on which the film of the same name was based) but other
   books are all good readable stuff with strong themes.

   The Vampire Chronicles:
          Interview With a Vampire
          The Vampire Lestat
          Queen of the Damned
          The Tale of the Body Thief

   She has also written:
          The Mummy or Rameses the Damned
          The Witching Hour

   As well as a trilogy of bondage stories under the name of A.N.
   Roquelaire - which are not gothic. Two 'romance' novels as Anne
   Rampling, called Exit to Eden and Belinda, as well as a short story:
   Master of Rampling Gate.

   Anne Rice's Vampire LeStat Fan Club
   Vampire LeStat
   P.O. Box 58277
   New Orleans, Lousiana 70158-8277

  Subject: 4.7 Who is Storm Constantine?

   Another Gothic author. Storm is more Gothic and less mainstream than
   Anne Rice. She has a series of books which have a lot in common with
   Anne Rice's vampire chronicles. She is interested in the occult and in
   very ancient mythology, biblical connections et cetera. Some of her
   ideas are very controversial, often in total contradiction with most
   well known academic research. She is published by Headline in the UK.

   Inception: Storm Constantine Information Service
   c/o Vikki Lee France & Steve Jeffery
   44 White Way
   Kidlington, Oxon OX5 2XA
   England

  Subject: 4.8 Any other interesting goth authors?

   There are plenty, including Bram Stoker and H.P. Lovecraft. Bram
   Stoker wrote Dracula and Lair of the White Worm amongst others. He
   died of syphilis and was quite mad at the end.

   H.P. Lovecraft wrote many short stories, most of which involved the
   Cthulhu mythos which he invented. He died after a tragically short
   career. He had a phobia of cold and was quite reclusive. He wrote
   a classic paper on Gothic Horror which is a must read.

  Subject: 4.9 Any interesting goth movies?

   The German Expressionists are quite Gothic and the film Nosferatu (the
   B&W version) is considered very Gothic. The remake: Nosferatu the
   Vampyre is also Gothic despite being in colour. The Cabinet of Doctor
   Caligari is probably the most Gothic film of all.

   And of course there are the common ones, "Dracula" (in its many
   remakes) and The Hunger staring David Bowie, and "Interview with a
   Vampire"

  Subject: 4.10 Who is Andrew Eldritch, Carl McCoy, Wayne Hussey, ...?

   Andrew Eldritch and Carl McCoy are the singers from The Sisters of
   Mercy and The Fields of the Nephilim respectively. They are pillars of
   the Goth community. Wayne Hussey was guitarist in the Sisters but he
   left in a bad mood. He then failed to get a slice of record company
   money allocated to the Sisters despite a court battle. He and Eldritch
   are now reconciled personally if not musically.

  Subject: 4.11 What do Pre-Raphaelites have to do with goth?
   The Pre-Raphaelites were an artistic movement in Victorian England.
   They were part of the revival of Gothic architecture. Their art is
   stunning - try and see the originals if you can.

  Subject: 4.12 What is 'Snakebite'?

   Half a lager and half a cider. Lager is what americans would call
   "beer" and cider is the same sort of thing made from apples basically.
   The combination is somewhat lethal. A lot of pubs will refuse to serve
   it. Variations: "snakebite black" - the same drink with a splash of
   blackcurrant in it, also known as a "purple nasty" up north and is the
   cliche goth drink (also can be prepared as snakebite and black with a
   pernod and a vodka in it). "red witch" - a snakebite with pernod and
   black in - not to be taken lightly under any circumstances. "Anaconda"
   - made with half a pint of Theakstons Old Peculiar (or another real
   ale) and a bottle of Diamond White or 1080 (or other strong dry
   cider), a dash of black and two straws. It can also be *real beer* and
   cider (i.e. ale) e.g. Theakston's Old Peculier (~5.5%) + Scrumpy Jack
   (erm, ~5%ish), a rather entertaining mix

  Subject: 4.13 Whats the best way to dye my hair?

   Note: all of the products below should and will need to be purchased
   at a beauty supply place, substitute equivalents as needed

   Start with healthy hair. In order to do this I recommend using good
   products. ie Nexxuss etc. Seeing we cant all afford that kind of
   stuff, the generics usually work well.

   If you are dying your hair just like a standard color try Wella - blue
   black, Black Cherry, Loreal- Aurelle Cherry Plum, Clairol- 70R Plum
   brown. TRY AND AVOID TORRIDS. It is death to your hair. They look cool
   but you pay a price in the end. Put a high intensity conditioner right
   in the mixture of dye. Use 20 volume developer but not any higher.

   "But I want to manic panic my hair! and its already black.. or another
   color!" First, bleach your hair. This is a must unless you are a
   blond. Products that work include Effasol by loreal (use developer not
   water), Torrids Platinum Lightening (its death but it works. its a
   high power tint), SpeedLighT by Wella.

   This can take several tries. It took Lady Renee 8 bleaches over 6
   weeks to get my pretty purple hair, often bleaching her hair 3 times
   in day for several hours. Leave it in for up to an hour a process and
   when the bleach dries it quits working so mist it lightly with warm
   water. (It reactivates it) Condition between each process! Or watch
   your hair fall out.

   For the actual Manic Panic, (you can also use Punky Colors or Krazy
   Colors):
     * Apply, Wear gloves, it stains.
     * For even application use a bottle not plop it on and when you
       think your are done. Slick it back and use a toothbrush to do your
       roots.
     * Leave it in as long as possible and apply heat if you can.

   "OH FUCK I made a mess" Well honestly folks, you are in trouble. Manic
   panic can ruin many many things. General Substances that will clean
   you (ears etc ) and your house: Finger Nail polish Remover (with
   acetone), Clean Touch (made to remove hair dye..works well), Rubbing
   Alcohol, Oxy, Noxema rubbing pads.

  Subject: 4.14 What are the mail addresses of some goth bands?

   Sisters of Mercy Information Service:

    The Reptile House Ltd.
    PO Box HP29
    Leeds LS6 1LS
    West Yourshire
    England

   The Nefilim Information Service:

    The Watchman
    P.O. Box 17
    Stevenage
    Herts
    SG2 0QX
    England

   Rosetta Stone Information Service:

    Rosetta Stone
    31 Ivanhoe Road
    Aigburth
    Liverpool
    L17 8FX
    England
    Phone: +44 051 728 8998

  Subject: 4.15 What comics are Goth?

   Sandman - written by Neil Gaiman and published by Vertigo. Also
   various offshoot projects: Books of magic, High Cost of Living (about
   his sister, Death) etc.

   The Crow:
     * 4 issue mini series published in 1989 by Caliber
     * 3 issue mini series published in 1992 by Tundra
     * The Crow TPB (Trade Paperback) reprints ALL Crow stories/art
       published in 1993 by Kitchen Sink Press ($15.95 US coverprice)

   Love and Rockets - (sort of punk/goth) by Los Bros Hernandez,
   published by Fantagraphics. This is where the band name came from by
   the way.

   The Vampire Chronicles - Three different series - one for each of the
   first three Anne Rice vampire books, adapted by hacks, published by
   Innovation. OK only if you've already read the books. Anne Rice
   doesn't like them at all.

   Stray Toasters - four issue mini series by Bill Sienkiewicz
   (pronounced as Sin-KEV-itch) published by Epic. Inspiration for a
   Creaming Jesus song.

   Grendel - by Matt Wagner, published by Dark Horse (was published by
   Comico). Some stories are fairly Gothic others are not.

   Sandman Mystery Theatre - by Matt Wagner, published by Vertigo. An old
   golden age DC character revived. Full of atmosphere.

   Cerebus - by Dave Sim and Gerhard. Not strictly Gothic, but black and
   white. Flight and Women have a great Sandman satire.

     _________________________________________________________________

Credits
     _________________________________________________________________

   Special thanx to the following for information provided within,
   beware however that several of these wonderful and gorgeous
   people who have made the alt.gothic FAQ what it is toady are
   no longer with us here on the 'net (sob sob).

   Peter Wake (peterw@cs.man.ac.uk)
   John Mc Donagh (mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie)
   Digitar (digitar@io.org)
   Ian Grimstead (I.J.Grimstead@cm.cf.ac.uk)
   Jeff Harmon (harmon@elia.epfl.ch) The
   Great Grendel-Khan (argent@iastate.edu)
   Sexbat (sexbat@batt.demon.co.uk)
   Ace of Hearts (uaceohrt@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu)
   Petro (petro@mcs.com)
   Austen Jackson (Ozric@tentacle.demon.co.uk)
   Ryan J Watkins (lestat@vamp.org)
   Mike Jourard (aka Mikey) (mjourard@badinage.com)
   Richard something-or-other (AxxE1@aol.com)
   Rev Dr David Gerard (gerdw@cougar.vut.edu.au)
   little o (cc158019@mail.idt.net)
   LadyReynee (lrenee@umd.umich.edu) for the hair dye info
   and others to numerous to mention....
  _________________________________________________________________


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Last-modified: 01 JUL 1997
Maintainer: tom@midnight.karoo.co.uk (Tom Fosdick)